Oops, I forgot to post this interview of Liza and me by Bob Carlson of KCRW Radio (an NPR affiliate) of LA. It’s a follow-up on Liza’s NYTime Modern Love column which started this whole Profiler thing!
You can listen to us on your computer - hope you enjoy the show!
When my daughter suggested I go on line to find potential dates, I just smirked and stalled…and stalled.
But after a year of living back in the U.S. after retiring from the Foreign Service, my world had shrunk drastically. I had lived 26 years overseas in large capital cities: Madrid, Rome, Athens, Caracas, Mexico City… From my busy responsibilities and activities at U.S. Embassies - with evening receptions and cultural events - from interaction with foreign diplomats, professionals, and interesting ex-pats; from living and working in diverse countries with late-night meals, music, lively people outside in piazzas enjoying life after midnight….I had ended up in the sterile, tranquil suburbia of Bellevue, WA. helping my 92 year old mother.
Not as easy to make friends - and harder still to find a “special” guy, even though I attend music, art, theater events - and even went to luncheon or dinner lectures on the economic sponsored by my Schwab broker. OK, maybe Liza is right….I’ll try to see who might be on-line looking for a date.
A friend suggested Zoosk. So why not? I’ll tell you why not. In fact, let me show you. I copied some Zoosk men’s profiles. Several wrote and wanted to meet me. But you’ll get the idea of why I wasn’t interested. Here’s a sample from Zoosk - with all the spelling mistakes, etc.:
Profile of Man #1:
hi and thank you for looking here. like the outdoors working on my house that could be a full time job. I drive truck in the sate. like to wach my grandson and neice sports
to have coffee or a pop
- - - - - - - -
Profile of Man #2:
Im retired from foss. For kids not at home and for grand kids. Love them all very much. Like too sail and ride the old motorcycle. Im a great cook . In too road trips and keeping active.
Out going happy. i can get along with just about anyone.
simple and relaxed.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Profile of Man #3
gentle giant hard working loves hot rods dragracing, boating, camping,going to ocean, im a sober man dont smoke love god
have two grown kids 21 and 22 live in wenatchee i like living good and having fun and did i say I LOVE HOT RODS AND DRAGRACING!!!!!!!
faithfull loving easy going loves same things i do or most
no drunks or no drugs loves hot rods and drag racing loves god likes big guys gentle heart short cute and sweet
go to a park, have lunch,talk and hopefully laugh a lot
- - - - - - - - - - -
Not to be a snob but I wonder if any of these guys graduated from high school?? Not quite the urban, international, well educated, cultured, professional guy I have in mind….
So goes the dating scene…but more later - including the one Zoosk guy who did “make the cut” …
Liza has found her “soul mate”….but how did she know rather quickly that he was The One? That rare, surprising, breath-taking attraction - is that the start of a “real relationship” - does it fade or last and change into a different level of love.
I wanted to know. We all want to know how to recognize the “right” guy… So Profiler Mom asked her some questions that will, hopefully, help us all in our quest for that special relationship destined for years of shared lives.
So I asked my daughter:
1. Do you know right away if it’s the “right” guy? Did you? Or was there a friendship period of time first?
I am not sure if you can know right away. I knew pretty soon, but I wouldn’t say “right away”.
As soon as I met J. in Ithaca last summer I knew I wanted to get to know him because he seemed interesting and charismatic. He had come from California to go on this upstate New York capoeira (Brazilian martial arts with music) retreat which made me want to talk to him more, since we shared this interest.
We got along and became friends quickly. I don’t know if it would have been different had he not had a girlfriend at the time. As soon as he mentioned his girlfriend, early on in our conversation, I didn’t consider him as anything other than a possible friend. So maybe I would have known “right away” that he could be The One, if it weren’t for that.
So, what happened next?
Some things are meant to be, the next time I saw him, I learned that he hadn’t lived in the same city as his girlfriend for nearly a year. Undeniable feelings of affection and admiration began growing between us. I wouldn’t call them “sparks” necessarily…the interesting thing was the comfort level. It wasn’t over-the-top. We just really, really liked each other and it became clear that our having a relationship on top of the friendship was inevitable.
We were friends first, but not for very long. It’s just the right match. And after numerous Skype conversations, he visited me a month later, and I pretty much just knew he was the one. He said he would wait six months to propose but then he couldn’t wait, so it was mutual.
2. It didn’t take you long to realize he was the guy for you
It must be different for everyone. I remember you told me about a couple you knew where they saw each other right away and knew. I’ve heard those stories. Someone is introduced or walks into a room, and the other thinks, “That’s the man [or woman] I am going to marry.”
I thought I felt that way about one guy before, that author I told you about who I met in Chicago, but it turned out to be wrong. In other cases, people are together for years before they’re sure. It depends on the person. I don’t think there’s a “one” for everyone, or if there is, sometimes it’s not who you think it is at first. But there are best matches, for sure, and in those cases you can pretty much instantly tell, after talking to the person a bit.
With J, it was the second time I saw him after we first kissed, on the computer screen. I saw him and we talked and I knew.
3. Were you “looking” for him - or was he a “surprise”?
I was NOT looking. As you know, I was enmeshed in the Profiler Project. Also, I was really into being single for the first time in many years. I mean, EXCITED about being single. My days were full of writing, teaching, capoeira, friends, going out in New York City…there was always an adventure to be had, and I started feeling as if there wasn’t room for a relationship in the life I was building.
To make room, the person would have to be exceptionally special. Then I found someone who was. I never imagined I would leave New York and move back to the West Coast. But even after J offered to move to Brooklyn, it was just obvious that this was the right path.
4. Do you have a lot in common - or are you very different?
One of the first questions I asked him the night we first kissed was to describe his outlook or reaction to most situations in life in one word. I was thinking of what I would say: amusement. Then he said, “amusement.”
We find that we often are thinking the same thing at the same time. He’ll say the very thing I was about to say, things like that. We’re in sync on some wavelength-level - it’s nothing we have to plan or work at. So I’d say we have a lot in common, from our basic dispositions to what we appreciate in terms of lifestyle, values, and how we spend our time.
Not to say we don’t have differences. For example, he is much more knowledgeable about history while I’m more into contemporary authors. But I love listening to him talk about history—he has an amazing memory for dates and details—and he reads the books I pass along to him. So our differences enhance rather than divide us.
5. What makes you “sure” he’s the right one?
His stability, his loving nature, his intelligence, humor, and sweetness…and the fact that he’s amazing at everything he does.
6. I didn’t get a chance to “profile” him -things moved so quickly and you “took over” the blog, locking me out! But if you had, would you have been attracted to him “on paper”?
Definitely. He met everything on my list of criteria. He has work and enjoys and an independent life of his own, loves traveling and capoeira (our shared interest that brought us together, or as you call it “obsession”), is intelligent, kind, sensitive but not over-sensitive, a great listener, interesting, handsome, warm, compassionate, loves animals and children, hiking and being outdoors, can have a lively conversation or debate and also share quiet moments….I cannot tell you one drawback. Ask me in ten years.
7. How important are looks?
A person has to be attractive to you personally and we all have our own ideas of handsome. You’d better find them good-looking if you’re going to wake up and see their face next to you every morning. It’s not really possible to compromise in this department.
8. Was there an “immediate” spark or physical attraction? Or did it grow?
I noticed him. It wasn’t overwhelming, but I was definitely drawn to him. Then it grew from there.
9. You had a friendship first - what made it suddenly morph into attraction - then love?
Spending a lot of time together, talking nonstop all day. It turned to attraction not at a definable moment but rather kind of slowly then all at once. We were dancing together at a party and I realized that dancing with him felt different than dancing with my other guy friends who were there. I grew to love him over the weeks that followed.
10. How do you know when you are in love???
You just know. There’s nothing to question. You absolutely adore the person and there is no little thing you’re justifying or trying to ignore or explain away. You’re proud of them and that they are your partner.
11. How do you know that this is not just an attraction/crush but the “real thing”
Like I said above. You just know. If you have to hem and haw, or justify/excuse any of his behavior or your own, move on. (Not to say you can’t enjoy a nice fling or a boyfriend who you know isn’t the one, if you’re having a good time!)
12. Advice for other young women seeking that special guy??
Don’t seek. Live your own life, follow your interests and build your life in a way that brings you happiness and feels rewarding. Love will show up. Be patient, and never compromise what you know you want and need. Any guy who dumps you is doing you a favor - he’s freeing you up for the right one - so don’t be sad or dwell on the ones that don’t work out.
13. Did the fact that he reciprocated your interest/emotion/attraction make the relationship grow? I.e. You had been interested in the Washington DC guy and the writer - if they had been interested in you, would either of those relationships have developed into potential matches???
Why or why not…
Sure, they could have. Obviously interest has to be mutual! If DC guy or Chicago writer had been interested, I would have dated either of them to see where it would go, for sure. As to whether either would have led to marriage or if we would have broken up over time is a great mystery - we’ll have to live with that. We can never know.
Isn’t it interesting that I never seemed to be able to meet someone who lived in New York? There was my boyfriend from Boston (who I encouraged to move to New York), DC guy, and Chicago writer, then J, from Santa Cruz. It seemed I was destined to be taken away from the city eventually….
Anyway, that was off-topic. To answer your question, of course J’s reciprocal interest made our relationship grow. If he went back to California and decided to work things out with his long-distance girlfriend, for instance, clearly things with us would not have worked out. But he didn’t do that. He chose me.
And I didn’t have to move to freezing Chicago.
Several women have asked me if you offer out your services to a broader clientele than your daughter, especially now that I put you out of a job. Would you consider profiling for other women? Do your skills extend to being able to tell who is right for anybody? —Liza
If you have been following this blog, you remember I was “fired” by my daughter as “Profiler Mom” a few months ago when she found her own perfect match (not by profiling, but by chance). And “sparks” ignited for both of them. To prevent my profiling of more potential dates, she hacked this site and locked me out…True love wins over Mom’s profiling techniques.
But, Liza went a step further and switched our roles. She promised to be the Profiler herself and to find me a great guy. No one so far…Liza, I’m still waiting..!!
Actually, she thought one man I profiled for her - whom she met for dinner in New York City - would be perfect for me. He’s a world traveler, my age, speaks foreign languages, talented, cultured. Wow, he sounded intriguing! But alas, our “relationship” has merely been a few email exchanges…His real interest was probably Liza, the talented writer, not Mom, retired Diplomat/Foreign Service officer. But, if he changes his mind, I’m game to meet him.
But good news: I finally decided to take my daughter’s advice and join an online dating site recommended by a friend. Bad news: it took only a week to realize that the guys on that site are….not for me! With nicknames like “Goodallnite”, “BigRdTruck”, “Geezer”, “dirthauler”, “SciFiNerdyGeekman”, “Moderndaywarrior”, “oldtimebanjo”, “lonely”, and “Imeant4some1”…you can imagine. I’ll tell you more in my next post.
Anyway, glad to be back here with you. And very glad that my daughter is so happy with the man she found on her own!
I thank my daughter for taking over The Profiler responsibilities to find a great match for me. Not an easy task since I met so many men at receptions, diplomatic meetings and a wide variety of events (both official and non) during my 26 years as a Foreign Service officer.
While I dated some guys for over a year in various countries, unfortunately none passed the test of the “perfect partner”. In fact, the initial excitement, attraction that took my breath away, morphed into more mundane, then eventually unsatisfactory - even annoying - relationships.
So, good luck to Liza in finding me The Man.
While I was surprised at being suddenly, unexpectedly fired from my Profiler Mom role, I still believe that my profiling skills are valid in making judgments about people.
None of the respondents to this blog were the ” perfect” match for Liza. But they all possessed admirable, worthy traits, talents, professions. I “profiled” them positively for Liza to meet. I never promised that any of the respondents would be The One for her as a life partner. And she decided as much by herself after a few dates, although the most promising one for her did not follow up after the initial date, perhaps since he lives elsewhere.
In the meantime, Liza met someone else who made her heart beat faster. But is this again an initial attraction that will last or fade over time? The Profiler cannot comment since I have been fired.
So, instead, I look forward to any potential dates that Liza will screen for me. Actually, one of the men who wrote to The Profiler and met her is really my age. He sounds very interesting. But will he contact me since he was interested in my daughter?
Time will tell.
Best to all,
The Profiler Mom
As I continue my journey toward finding the right guy for my mom, I have been reflecting on what the Profiler Project has done for my personal growth. I’ve definitely changed through the process of undertaking the experiment, becoming more in tune with my values and what it is I want not only from relationships but from my own life as an individual making her way in this often crazy, unpredictable world. Now that I’m writing more about it, turning these experiences into the basis for a book, I have interviewed others on what they thought of The Profiler. Here is what one particularly insightful, beloved friend had to say, and I want to post it because she really gets it right on:
“Maybe this exercise in letting mom do the picking (and the interesting experiences you got out of it) did actually help. Though maybe not in the way she anticipated. Maybe it helped you hone your own criteria, and shine a light on some of the things that you absolutely don’t want. Made you really look at what is your list, what is truly important to you. Things I have heard you say about traits in a potential mate that interest you: a sense of humor, kindness, a sense of adventure, a want to travel/experience new and different things in the world, a sense of true connection between you, someone who will let you be you and is not threatened by your independence or your writing, and someone who encourages you in all of your pursuits, someone who gives you roots but also wings. Someone with a sense of responsibility, kinsmanship with his fellow man, a helper to others, someone you have passion with, someone who respects you, someone you can learn and explore with, someone who can teach you things and will let you teach him things, someone you feel that spark with, and also that feeling of home.
[The Profiler] loves you and wants to see you happy, but I think she sometimes treads on dangerous ground, making judgements about the men you date with perhaps less regard to your criteria and more to hers. There is sometimes a sense of living vicariously, and while again, I think that it all comes from a loving place, I think that that vicarious aspect sometimes clouds what she wants for herself and what you want for yourself, because as we know, those things do not always align.
I think she is wary of the passionate pitfalls that she may have encountered in her own life and as a result, seeks to protect you from same.”
Hi everyone! So as you know if you’ve been following this blog, this project germinated from this piece feedback on my Modern Love column: “the mother certainly has a lot to say about who isn’t right for her daughter, but what has she done to help her find somebody ‘right’?” My mother undertook this project in an attempt to help find a guy who fit her criteria for what I needed in a partner. I went on a few dates, some pretty good, some mediocre, but nothing that really seemed like it could go anywhere. Well, I ended up getting to know someone who has nothing to do with any of this, and I am very happy, so this chapter of the Profiler Project ends here and now. I stick to the conclusions I drew in the original column - “Profiling is a surface art; real love isn’t. … The best way to know if you are meant to be with someone is to be with him.” And I am off to do exactly that.
Why did I question and go against my conclusion? I decided to give the Profiler a try because nothing else so far had worked out and she was right about the last two men I was in relationships with. But I had to have those relationships. I learned so much and I grew, and I couldn’t be where I am today—not to mention have written an article like “When Mom is on the Scent…” without them. Every relationship had lessons and brought me new insights and understanding about what I need in a partner. I knew even then that having these experiences would better prepare me for the one that lasts for life.
I have also learned that what my mother thinks I need and what I actually need are two different things. I have to live my life for me, make my choices—the real choices that make me happy, not ones I make to try to live up to what my mother wants. I gave in, gave this profiling experiment a chance. Instead of protesting her judgments I went with them. After this experience, combined with what I learned last month, the truth, as I see it, is that you cannot “grow” attraction. You can’t find someone perfect on paper and try to force your feelings to work with your logical brain. Sometimes a person shows up when you’ve resigned yourself to the notion that maybe you just aren’t going to be in a relationship, or at least maybe not for a very long time, and this person will change all of that, and you will talk a lot and he will make you laugh and feel happier than you’ve felt in years. This is not because of a set of predefined criteria imposed by somebody else. Not forced. Completely natural. All of which the Profiler Project, as it turns out, simply isn’t.
Sorry, Mom, but you’re fired.
And -I’m the Profiler now.
That’s right, people. I’m taking over. I also see now that my mother has been single for so long, she has placed too much of her own expectations for what she wants onto me. This does not make for a healthy mother-daughter dynamic. She needs a relationship, or companionship, and she’s not doing a very proactive job of finding someone for herself, so now I will be profiling for her. I want her to find happiness of her own so she can have a life, and because it would be nice if she weren’t so intense about me all the time. We need some space, at least I do. And I feel that she needs to divorce herself from believing she still has some agency or authority over her 32-year-old daughter’s independent, adult life.
The same criteria for what she was looking for in a partner for me applies. I really want her to meet one of the men who applied to date me and turns out would be amazing for her. (They are about the same age and he really seems perfect for her.) I don’t know if he’ll meet her though. Anyway, send in your applications, men age 55-68, with enthusiasm for life, travels, enjoying foreign cultures, cities, beaches, the arts. Be healthy, fit, financially secure, kind, caring, and a nonsmoker with a passport. Have a sense of humor and a positive attitude. And be able to take my mother on lots of faraway trips please! She really loves to travel.
How does the consular officer get a handle on who is the person in front of you and is he/she really what he/she seems? You can apply these techniques in your every day experience to get an overall view of who a person is…Here are some tips.
After a quick physical appearance assessment, the officer jumps into the interview questioning the applicant about the purpose of his/her trip to the U.S., the applicant’s employment etc. Any supporting documents (job letters, bank statements) are rapidly reviewed and consistency determined. Do the answers make sense? Are the documents legit? Some people will go to any length to get a visa - their desire to travel to the U.S. is so compelling. Forged bank documents, false employment letters, even altered passports were not uncommon. Years ago, a young Nigerian male had substituted a photo of himself in a British passport. But he didn’t understand that the data on the document was that of a blonde 5’ 6” woman. This was an easy counterfeit passport to detect. Another man drew a U.S. eagle wing with blue ink over the laminate that was cut while substituting the photo.
In Greece, where I was Visa Chief, I interviewed an applicant who said she was part of a singing group book for a U.S. tour. But in reality, she was an Albanian employed as cleaning help on Greek trains. Incredible story! How did I know? I asked her to sing a song and she struggled with the words and the tune. Musicians, hip hop artists and others may be asked for quick, informal performances during a visa interviews to verify if they are really the artists they claim to be.
A consular officer - and anyone attempting in-person interviews for profiling - should use an appropriate line of questioning. Can a surgeon describe equipment used in an operation? Does a car mechanic know how a carburetor works? Can a bakery shop manager explain the goods he sells, the costs and time involved in baking them? Are an applicant’s language skills, vocabulary, grammar and expressions appropriate to his/her studies, social level, city/town of origin? In many countries, the vocabulary of a foreign professional with a university degree would not be the same as the language used by an agricultural worker even in daily normal conversations.
Consular officers carefully interview applicants with criminal histories and are alert to information which could lead to the discovery of a potential terrorist.
Consular Sections also haves an American Citizen Services Unit to provide assistance to U.S. citizens living or traveling overseas. Officers issues U.S. passports, determine whether a baby born abroad is entitled to U.S. citizenship, whether Americans seeking funds to return to the U.S. were really destitute and had no family or friends to help them. These and other cases involving Americans also required skilled interview techniques since - like it or not - some U.S. citizens make false claims to try to funds to return to the U.S. Sometimes foreigners presented false claims to U.S. citizenship to try to get an American passport. Some had even lived in the U.S. and spoke English without a foreign accent.
While working at the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City, I interviewed American women who claimed to have given birth to babies in Mexico. They applied for U.S. passports and reports of birth abroad for their newborns. However, I’ll never forget the blond, blue-eyed, Caucasian couple who came to the Consular Section with an indigenous looking, dark skinned, dark haired baby. The woman stated that she gave birth prematurely to the infant with the help of a midwife in a home in the countryside. Thus there were not hospital documents attesting to the birth. The citizen was in her late 40s and had no prior pregnancies. My careful interviewing finally led her to confess that the child was not her own. She paid an indigenous woman for the child. Adoptions can be pursued, but this was not the way to do it.
Working with the public for 26 years - first as an interviewing officer and later as Consul General managing a staff of over 50, I was able to hone my intellectual/perceptive skills in handling a vast variety of casework and helping train my officers to do the same.
In my new role as “The Profiler” to find the right match for my daughter, I am putting my experiences to the test in a new way. Since the suitors do not appear in person, I cannot rely on interviews: verbal communication, gestures and body language, etc. So I am adapting techniques from my career to assess the men who submit requests to date Liza.
What do I look at? Again, first impression is important and the photo of the gentleman gives an opportunity to scrutinize his physical appearance, clothing etc.. Long hair and tattoos or clean cut? How is he dressed? Smiling or serious? Is the photo a routine “passport photo” or something fun or clever? You can tell a lot about someone from a photo. Look at the eyes, the face, the clothes, etc.
What else do I look at to judge these men? More details soon…
But more news: from the dating front! Liza just went on a second date with one of the applicants…Is she interested? Could he be a good match? I’ll find out what I can and let you know. But personally, I don’t think this will develop into anything serious. From what I understand, their personalities and worlds are very different: he is in the financial business and she is a creative writer …She is a spontaneous, free spirit. Can he deal with that? Could that work? I’ll see what Liza is thinking…
Let’s talk more about profiling skills.
As explained in prior post, a consular officer must perceptive, analytical and a skilled interviewer. You only get a few minutes or less to form an impression of a visa applicant, then must make your decision to issue or deny the visa. The pressure is on and time is of the essence since an officer might be responsible for 150-300 interviews each day. That’s a lot of people and shrewd judgment is vital. It was often exhausting to see lines and lines of public waiting for their turn with the officers all in line at the interview windows…
As each applicant approached my window, I first relied on a quick overall impression. What is the individual’s appearance? How is he/she dressed: classic, hip, chic or cheap? Does the individual’s appearance “match” or make sense for the profession or employment indicated on the visa application? In most countries outside the U.S., appearance is almost always indicative of socio-economic class. For example, a business executive in Mexico would always be better dressed than a baker, driver or laborer. In the U.S., casual dress may often “hide” the wealth of a Silicon valley expert techie, a renown surgeon or an actor off the set. In Italy, however, an upscale boutique owner or an actress would be more fashionably attired than a school teacher or government employee - even if casually dressed, the quality of clothes generally reflects the social level of the wearer. So if someone seeking a visa wrote “attorney” or “CEO” on his/her application, the appearance should “mesh” with the profession: i.e. you would expect to see a Rolex on their wrists rather than an inexpensive, non-brand watch. Their clothes would be expensive and classy.
On my first tour in Guadalajara, before security concerns dictated that officers interview behind bullet proof glass windows, we were actually face-to-face with the public with no dividers. In fact, we could even smell certain applicants as they came up for interviews. Identifying the sheep herders applying to go to the U.S. on special seasonal visas was easy – as odors from their profession wafted our way.
Besides appearance, body language and gestures are also key in forming an opinion about someone. Does the applicant look the officer in the eyes – or look away? Is he/she nervous? Is the unease due to the stress of the interview situation itself or because of lies or forged documents? Is the applicant licking his/her lips, shifting back and forth from leg to leg? Does he or she answer “yes” but nod “no”? These can be clues to possible contradictions and false statements.
When I started this blog for my daughter, I knew it could be a challenge since there would be no personal interview with guys requesting a date with Liza. I had to fine-tune and augment my profiling techniques. But more about that soon…
